[Lyss]

Hope this is in the right place?

In another thread, I mentioned wanting to put together a Japanese Language guide for AT. I'm probably going to do it, simply because it'll give me something to do, I like explaining things, and I'll find it fun. I've already put together a crude list of what I'd be including in the guide. What I'd like to know is: what you think is unnecessary; what you'd like to see in the guide; and what order you think everything should be in, since I'm indecisive as to that aspect. Here's what I've thought of including:

• Kana
  • A pronunciation guide and a list of katakana and hiragana. I know not everyone will want something like this but it's still a useful thing to have.
  Greetings
  • Hello, goodbye, good night, welcome to my store, etc.
  Honorifics
  • -chan, -kun, -sama, -dono, etc.
  Pronouns
  • Japanese has many different ways of saying "I" and "you".
  Sentence Endings
  • "wa", "yo", "ne", etc.
  Particles
  • Japanese also has many particles that have great grammatical significance.
  Basic Sentence Structure
  • Word order in sentences.
  Levels of Speech
  • neutral, informal, formal, humble, exaltive.
  Basic Conjugations
  • positive, negative, past tense
  Transitive & Intransitive Verbs
  • self-explanatory
  Reporting Speech
  • self-explanatory
  Time
  • How to say "after I do x, I am going to do y", what time is it, etc.
  ~nagara forms
  • "while I do this, I do this"
  Adjectives
  • self-explanatory
  -te Form Verbs
  • Japanese gerund, basically
  Comparing Things
  • something looks like this, this is better than that
  Requesting Things
  • self-explanatory
  Potential Verbs
  • I can do ___!
  To Want
  • Conjugations for verbs, using "hoshii"
  Ageru, Kureru, Morau
  • giving or receiving
  Passive Sentences
  • Something is done to the "passive" subject. example: someone stole my car.
  Causative Sentences
  • To let or make someone do something.
  Passive-Causative Sentences
  • someone is made to do something

These are all the things I could think of from the top of my head. As you can see there is no actual structure or order to this.

...Uhh, your thoughts?

And yes, I am crazy, thank you for asking.

[DictatorBunny]

I don't think you are crazy, you actually saved me time since I wanted to make a post of what books and /or programs I should get to learn Japanese... Actually no wait I would still like some suggestions ._.

But I'll defs check you guide since it will be a nice start ^-^

[Tennouji]

Nice share, even if this won't give anyone who wants to learn japanese a few steps away from zero. But still a step or two forward is good.

It took me few years, many guides, and some people to learn what I learned about Japanese. What I realized back then is: There is no perfect guide, you have to make your own while learning, and it will only be perfect for you.

[alcaray]

Something that bothers me about translations is that they are done phrase for phrase. What I mean is... hard to explain. An example: someone says "Sayonara". And the translator says it means: "Goodbye". But really it means something closer to "If it must be." Now the translator is bang on right to say "Goodbye" because that is the ultimate meaning of what the author intends. My objection is that I would learn more about the language if I was *also* given a literal translation along with the meaningful translation.

[NLwino]

I would love this. I have no intention of learning to read and write but I do want to be able to understand the spoken language. I tried out some sites but have no idea where to start on the sites. Most include the written language, which doesn't interest me. And If I start at the start I only get stuff I already know. But if I go to the intermediate part of sites they expect me to know stuff I don't know. I hope your guide will be useful for people like me that only want to know the basics to be able to understand the language to a certain point (not to perfect it). And for those that are only interested in the spoken language.

[Fullm3t41]

This would be great, i don't want to learn the entire language, the basics would be fine for someone who only watches anime, its not like your going to learn the entire language so you can go to japan with no plan.

[OtakuDao]

Impressive ! To think you'd actually give this a go, Not to mention it's VERY detailed too.
Looking forward to it

[Tennouji]

Originally Posted by alcaray

Something that bothers me about translations is that they are done phrase for phrase. What I mean is... hard to explain. An example: someone says "Sayonara". And the translator says it means: "Goodbye". But really it means something closer to "If it must be." Now the translator is bang on right to say "Goodbye" because that is the ultimate meaning of what the author intends. My objection is that I would learn more about the language if I was *also* given a literal translation along with the meaningful translation.

That's why in the fansubbing industry, we have the TC(Translator Checker) and QC(Quality Checker) to take care of those issues. Because every people have different level of understanding of Japanese language. It means that you have to translate every single word and blend them for general/common level. When you start realizing how the translations are "modified" from their original meaning/etymology, it does mean that you have improved understanding Japanese. And it means you'll rely less and less from subtitles. No good fansub team will make a direct/literal translation for every phrase for you, because they would have failed on the very purpose of fansubbing. And that is, to make the general audience with less/no knowledge and understanding of Nihongo.

I myself still watch fansubbed videos, but only to aid me for advanced kanji and technical jargons/portmanteau of loan words. That way, I don't have to pause the video and/or get a Kanji dictionary for every advanced terms I might encounter in the episodes.



@ Thread

There are more than 20 honorifics available on Japanese language, as well as their derivatives.
Some are Shisho, Taishou, Bucchou, Iinchou, Shachou, Kaichou, Han, Shi, and more.

Also there are different levels/types of speech existing and which have existed. Like on medieval times, Peasants talk to other Peasants on a certain level of speech, Peasants talk to higher caste on another level, and certain terms/speech are only used by the Warrior class aside from the archaic gozaru/gozaimasu (equivalent to today's desu), Scholars/Royalties talk in the most formal level which is still used today (~desu speech). And formal greetings are still preserved today using the gozaimasu particle, which should be already extinct on normal speech.

Conditionals are also complicated on Japanese language, and it would be a very long explanation to say which should be used on which. These are -nara, -tara, -e + ba, to(aside from the equivalent and)

[alcaray]

Originally Posted by Tennouji

That's why in the fansubbing industry, we have the TC(Translator Checker) and QC(Quality Checker) to take care of those issues. Because every people have different level of understanding of Japanese language. It means that you have to translate every single word and blend them for general/common level. When you start realizing how the translations are "modified" from their original meaning/etymology, it does mean that you have improved understanding Japanese. And it means you'll rely less and less from subtitles. No good fansub team will make a direct/literal translation for every phrase for you, because they would have failed on the very purpose of fansubbing. And that is, to make the general audience with less/no knowledge and understanding of Nihongo.

I myself still watch fansubbed videos, but only to aid me for advanced kanji and technical jargons/portmanteau of loan words. That way, I don't have to pause the video and/or get a Kanji dictionary for every advanced terms I might encounter in the episodes.

Understood. I would never recommend that translators provide literal translations. However, since the project defined in this thread is not about fansubbing but is instead about learning/teaching Japanese, I was trying to make the point that direct translations - in addition to common usage - would aid learning.

[TwistedLunacy]

This sounds awesome! I'll definitely be checking out the guide then, and once it's done i suppose other people with a knowledge of japanese could give suggestions for guide aswell? Or something like that...
Anyway i'll look forward to it as i've just started looking up resources that i could use to start learning japanese.