[Nominis]

Originally Posted by King Drahcir

your being overdramatic and spouting random information you might have heard. There are much simpler ways of limiting access to data than completely sealing it and dropping it in the bottom of the ocean. If you think otherwise, then your an idiot when it comes to computer knowledge.

you'd be surprised about what networkers are capable of when it comes to building secure networks. It's actually very easy to keep others from accessing data with the proper knowhow.

Your assumptions on building materials are off as well. Look up EMSEC (Emissions Security) and start reading, then you will have a better understanding.

Sounds to me like you are saying that all the people Sony, NASA, and Georgia government's computer security personal are complete dolts. Though I have read that the USA has one of the most insecure web in the world.

Nasa has been hacked no less than 2 times that I know of, back in 1985-86 by a group of hackers.

>From the 9/16 San Francisco Chronicle, page A19:

GERMAN HACKERS BREAK INTO NASA NETWORK (excerpted)

Bonn
	A group of West German computer hobbyists broke into an international computer network of the National Aeronautics and Space Administration and rummaged freely among the data for at least three months before they were discovered, computer enthusiasts and network users said yesterday.

	An organization in Hamburg called the Chaos Computer Club, which
claimed to be speaking for an anonymous group that broke into the network, said the illicit users managed to install a "Trojan horse," and gain entry into 135 computers on the European network.

	A "Trojan  Horse" is a	term for  a  permanent	program	that  enables amateur computer enthusiasts  [as opposed  to professionals?], or "hackers," to use a password to bypass  all the security  procedures of a system and gain access to all the data in a target computer.

[Actually, this type of program is a 'back door' or a 'trap door.' The group may very well have *used* a Trojan horse to enable them to create the back door, but it probably wasn't a Trojan horse per se.  A Trojan horse is a program that does something illicit and unknown to the user in addition to its expected task.	See Phrack xx-x, "Unix Trojan Horses," for info on how to create a Trojan horse which in turn creates a trap door into someone's
account.]

	The NASA network that was broken into is called the Space Physics
Analysis Network [ooh!] and is chiefly designed to provide authorized
scientists and organizations with access to NASA data.	The security system in the network was supplied by an American company, the Digital Equipment Corp. [Probably DECNET.  Serves them right.]	Users said the network is widely used by scientists in the United States, Britain, West Germany, Japan and five other countries and does not carry classified information.

	A Chaos club spokesman, Wau Holland, denied that any data had been changed.  This, he said, went against "hacker ethics."

	West German television reports said that computer piracy carries a penalty of three years in prison in West Germany.  The government has not said what it plans to do.

	The Chaos club clearly views its break-in as a major coup.  Holland, reached by telephone in Hamburg, said it was "the most successful running of a Trojan horse" to his knowledge, and the club sent a lengthy telex message to news organizations.

	It said the "Trojan horse" was spotted by a user in August, and the infiltrating group then decided to go public because "they feared that they had entered the dangerous field of industry espionage, economic crime, East-West conflict...and the legitimate security interests of high-tech institutions."

And the most recent I know of is the white hat hacker that broke in and exposed the global warming scam as a scam.

[King Drahcir]

Originally Posted by Nominis

Sounds to me like you are saying that all the people Sony, NASA, and Georgia government's computer security personal are complete dolts. Though I have read that the USA has one of the most insecure web in the world.

Nasa has been hacked no less than 2 times that I know of, back in 1985-86 by a group of hackers.

>From the 9/16 San Francisco Chronicle, page A19:

GERMAN HACKERS BREAK INTO NASA NETWORK (excerpted)

Bonn
	A group of West German computer hobbyists broke into an international computer network of the National Aeronautics and Space Administration and rummaged freely among the data for at least three months before they were discovered, computer enthusiasts and network users said yesterday.

	An organization in Hamburg called the Chaos Computer Club, which
claimed to be speaking for an anonymous group that broke into the network, said the illicit users managed to install a "Trojan horse," and gain entry into 135 computers on the European network.

	A "Trojan  Horse" is a	term for  a  permanent	program	that  enables amateur computer enthusiasts  [as opposed  to professionals?], or "hackers," to use a password to bypass  all the security  procedures of a system and gain access to all the data in a target computer.

[Actually, this type of program is a 'back door' or a 'trap door.' The group may very well have *used* a Trojan horse to enable them to create the back door, but it probably wasn't a Trojan horse per se.  A Trojan horse is a program that does something illicit and unknown to the user in addition to its expected task.	See Phrack xx-x, "Unix Trojan Horses," for info on how to create a Trojan horse which in turn creates a trap door into someone's
account.]

	The NASA network that was broken into is called the Space Physics
Analysis Network [ooh!] and is chiefly designed to provide authorized
scientists and organizations with access to NASA data.	The security system in the network was supplied by an American company, the Digital Equipment Corp. [Probably DECNET.  Serves them right.]	Users said the network is widely used by scientists in the United States, Britain, West Germany, Japan and five other countries and does not carry classified information.

	A Chaos club spokesman, Wau Holland, denied that any data had been changed.  This, he said, went against "hacker ethics."

	West German television reports said that computer piracy carries a penalty of three years in prison in West Germany.  The government has not said what it plans to do.

	The Chaos club clearly views its break-in as a major coup.  Holland, reached by telephone in Hamburg, said it was "the most successful running of a Trojan horse" to his knowledge, and the club sent a lengthy telex message to news organizations.

	It said the "Trojan horse" was spotted by a user in August, and the infiltrating group then decided to go public because "they feared that they had entered the dangerous field of industry espionage, economic crime, East-West conflict...and the legitimate security interests of high-tech institutions."

And the most recent I know of is the white hat hacker that broke in and exposed the global warming scam as a scam.

Sony got what they had coming to them. They were warned before hand and made no changes to PREVENT hacking. apples and oranges here.

If your seriously going to bring up situations that took place back in the 80's then this conversation is already over. There have been huge changes in the networking world since then and many ways of preventing hacking.

But hey, what do I know. I'm only calling MYSELF and my coworkers idiots obviously because we don't know how to do our JOBS!

come back when you got something of substance to add.

[luffysan]

I'm glad most of that hacking spree seems to be over. Bunch of spoiled kids looking for attention their daddy never gave them, by the looks of it. Most, if not all, of it wasn't even hacking, but simple DDoS and exploits, done by what real hackers would call script kiddies. But even so, it was just childish to attack game companies and accomplished nothing but upsetting millions of paying customers and making themselves look petty.

There's no such thing as a completely secure network in the first place so I don't know why they got all that attention for going after such easy unsuspecting targets. I guess angsty kids online are just looking for that sort of indiscriminate chaos to cheer on and get behind from the safety of their sheltered homes. All the attempts to justify it have been just as stupid and misinformed, but what can you do? Kids can't be reasoned with.

The biggest irony of it all is that they probably started believing their own bs about fighting the man, fighting for internet freedom and whatnot, and ultimately accomplished nothing but annoying people and gave governments ammunition to try passing very strict internet regulations in the future. Well done, freedom fighters. Well done.