[Nyaan]

Recently, a bill was passed implementing the "Don't ask, don't tell." policy in the US army. Lots of civil rights groups were angered by this, which I don't understand. Why does your unit need to know if you prefer boys or girls? You're singaling yourself out by saying "I'm gay, I'm different than you. Thought you should know." You're not there to get yourself a boyfriend. Sexuality shouldn't even matter. YOU are the one who's isolating yourself from the group by acting as if being gay makes you a different person from the straight guys around you. YOU are making it an issue.

I think the whole LGBT movement to raise awareness is a good thing in theory, but in practice they are only furthering the belief that they are different from the rest of society. In the perfect world, sexual orientation would not matter.

What do you think?

[Gamer_144]

I admire your open & truthful perspective. That's all I can say :3

[DTryPleX]

I mostly agree with you HOWEVER, if someone in your unit is gay and you find out only after several months for example, some people might be at least freaked out. Personally I wouldn't really mind, a good friend of mine was gay and during gym classes n stuff he changed with everyone else like normal, we all knew, no one cared. But that might've been different of we didn't know. Then it's possible to think he kept that fact from the group for scarier reasons.

This is just what-if though cuz personally I don't care about who or what you love.

[masked]

Originally Posted by Nyaan

Recently, a bill was passed implementing the "Don't ask, don't tell." policy in the US army. Lots of civil rights groups were angered by this, which I don't understand. Why does your unit need to know if you prefer boys or girls? You're singaling yourself out by saying "I'm gay, I'm different than you. Thought you should know." You're not there to get yourself a boyfriend. Sexuality shouldn't even matter. YOU are the one who's isolating yourself from the group by acting as if being gay makes you a different person from the straight guys around you. YOU are making it an issue.

Don't think that's the issue. The issue is that straight people can talk about their 'past' while gay people can't in the army. It's not an issue of whether they're seen as different, but it's being treated different by the state. Sexuality isn't a main part of the army, but it plays a huge role as one's identity. Again, it's an issue of whether the state and other people have the right to shut down expression rather than do gay people have a right to make a thing about it. That's basically where the anger comes from, a double standard where if someone's straight and talks about it they're not making it an issue, but if a gay person does he is obviously trying to mark himself out as being completely different from other people.

I think the whole LGBT movement to raise awareness is a good thing in theory, but in practice they are only furthering the belief that they are different from the rest of society. In the perfect world, sexual orientation would not matter.

Firstly, we're not in a perfect world. Secondly;
How else can a group of people raise their awareness without drawing attention to what they stand for?. I think there's a big difference between wanting to have the same treatment as another group of people, and then being seen as a completely different section of society. and yes, when discrimination is in play and even sanctioned by the state in the United states of america by don't ask don't tell then they're already seen as different people. Them standing up and saying that discrimination exists isn't asking for it, and it isn't actually giving the impression that they're radically different. My evidence for that is that Americans are getting more 'convinced' over homosexual issues and some studies even cite 6/10 for being for their relationships to have a standing in a legal sense.

[digritz]

I wonder how women in the military would react if suddenly they were told they would be showering together with the men. The argument could be made that they are in the military to fight not to get girlfriends/boyfriends Granted the men would be thrilled with the idea. But somehow I don't think the women would be quite so understanding.

Whether you agree with gays in the military or not I think it's plain to see why it can make some ppl uncomfortable. I thought being in the military was all about feeling comfortable (not physically), and trusting the person next to you.

Originally Posted by DTryPleX

This is just what-if though cuz personally I don't care about who or what you love.

Of course you don't you Lolicon.

[Celebrated]

Originally Posted by digritz

I wonder how women in the military would react if suddenly they were told they would be showering together with the men. The argument could be made that they are in the military to fight not to get girlfriends/boyfriends Granted the men would be thrilled with the idea. But somehow I don't think the women would be quite so understanding.

Whether you agree with gays in the military or not I think it's plain to see why it can make some ppl uncomfortable. I thought being in the military was all about feeling comfortable (not physically), and trusting the person next to you.



Of course you don't you Lolicon.

Lol, this made me laugh. Let me clarify a few things from first hand experience.

I served this country and was honorably discharged in June 2009. First off, if you went to any BCT post, guaranteed ANY of them. If you went and told the female privates that they had to shower with the males, I don't think you would get quite the response that you as an outsider would seem to believe. Actually, women and men would probably cheer and celebrate. Lol, sadly, "carnal?" (for lack of better terms) cravings seem to be even a part of life in the Army. It was honestly worse, especially going through warrior training, seeing people seeking boyfriends/girlfriends/flings, when you are trying to do your job and learn how not to get yourself killed.

But, am I confused about the first post? We had "Don't ask, Don't tell" when I was in. It was part of your first discrimination/prejudice class. Like your very first week. Now, I do know, and this did happen to a person in my BCT platoon, but never again after that, that there was a private that got discharged for being homosexual. He was very open about it though. I do believe if I remember right, it was a Chapter 15? It's just a regular discharge under normal circumstances. Nothing bad.

From a personal standpoint, do I give a rats ass? Not really. You have to understand though, you're in a barracks full of guys constantly, especially during training. I guess in my eyes that would be the part where sure it could possibly make you uncomfortable if you knew someone was gay. Guys would walk around shit, shower, and shave all with no clothes, run around the barracks chasing each other with their nuts free swinging. Whooptey shit, right? Well, sure for most of us. The problem is this though, if you had a openly homosexual in that situation and it makes at least ONE other person uncomfortable, don't you think it would be more safe to remove what is making people uncomfortable?

I personally always saw it as something they did for safety. I could only imagine the hazing that could go on. In another aspect look at it like this. Say there is a guy on the fence, doesn't know what he likes, he meets the homosexual private and instead of training to become soldiers, he's getting training on his sexual orientation. Might as well as throw women in the barracks too then.

The world is not the openly minded place we wish it was. This definitely holds true for some of the Armed Forces.

[Darkchao45]

The world is filled with idiots who think they know whats best for others.

[masked]

You have to understand though, you're in a barracks full of guys constantly, especially during training. I guess in my eyes that would be the part where sure it could possibly make you uncomfortable if you knew someone was gay. Guys would walk around shit, shower, and shave all with no clothes, run around the barracks chasing each other with their nuts free swinging. Whooptey shit, right? Well, sure for most of us. The problem is this though, if you had a openly homosexual in that situation and it makes at least ONE other person uncomfortable, don't you think it would be more safe to remove what is making people uncomfortable?

In most western countries there's been no such trouble(Including america, there was very little disruption when black people served alongside white people post world war 2,the situation is no doubt very similar given the culture at the time). Either the American armed forces are really obscure and different from the rest of the world and can't be controlled by their superiors or it will turn out perfectly fine. I find it hard to believe that the culture is completely different from other countries to really have any substantial affect on the arms force.

Also, it does beg the question if people feel uncomfortable in war situations by really mundane issues that don't affect them, are they army material?

[digritz]

Originally Posted by Darkchao45

The world is filled with idiots who think they know whats best for others.

Exactly! And it really pisses me off cause I'm the only idiot that knows what's best for me. ":}

[goozilla]

Where's Verlaine? We need his first hand experience in here.