[Kuro]

I watch the news far to much, and I'm always looking for people to discuss the state of the world with.

Lets kick off the discussion with thoughts about the situaton in Libya. What do you guys think? Personally I think the decision to impose a no-fly zone came way too late.

[Slush]

The decision came to late as well imo, the rebels have already suffered too heavy of losses to make a comeback now, plus strictly speaking Qadaffi is a fucking wackjob, he won't stop till he eliminates them, and seeing how they are mostly in the city of Benghazi now, makes it much easier for him.

[Shadow Tearz]

Qadaffi is a bastard that needs to be taking care of from along time...him and his green book...

that matters now in bahrain with the protesters and the killing...

[Kuro]

Gaddafi claims a ceasefire but all the news reports ive been reading say the fighting is still going on. My country, the US and others need to get their jets over there quick to sort this out.

[DarK7WiZaRd]

ghaddafi still has hope that he can retain his lead, but after what he's done there is no way!! i have to agree that the no-fly zone came too late many people got killed already, still needed to stop his slaughter

[sum1337gai]

It looks like I'm actually the only one against a no-fly zone...
Libya is one of the last African countries that isn't readily controlled in gov't and resources by an external, more affulent nation (i.e. US, England, etc.)
The institution of a no fly zone won't just beat the hell out of Qaddafi, but all of his people too, as evidenced by what the no-fly zone after the Gulf War did. The people, without any national, organized military to defend them will easily fall prey as the other African nations have =C

[Kuro]

Originally Posted by sum1337gai

It looks like I'm actually the only one against a no-fly zone...
Libya is one of the last African countries that isn't readily controlled in gov't and resources by an external, more affulent nation (i.e. US, England, etc.)
The institution of a no fly zone won't just beat the hell out of Qaddafi, but all of his people too, as evidenced by what the no-fly zone after the Gulf War did. The people, without any national, organized military to defend them will easily fall prey as the other African nations have =C

I'm not being aggressive towards you by the way, just trying to start a debate, but how would you propose we solve the problem? Just let Gadaffi continue slaughtering his own people just because you don't want outside intervention? I for one would not stand by and watch thousands killed.

[sum1337gai]

No, I just wouldn't authorize intense military actions without giving a goal of when you play to cease them. I'm not saure about other countries, but the Naval force (fleet 40-something or other) is just INSANELY powerful, and when coupled with a no fly zone it is literally enough to demolish a continent. I can't see why we would need to initiate an attack like that. While they were violent, the other African and Middle Eastern countries were able to resolve their political issues in a moderately peaceful way, despite the presence of heavily armed troops. If the entirety of the UN can manage to authorize a what they have in concern to Libya, I don't see why they can't handle the situation peacefully, or at least in a moderate/controlled fashion. Not only is this approach taxing on the people who will be directly affected by it (i.e. people damaged as "collateral", just like those 26 recently killed by unmanned drones in pakistan), but the citizens of those attacking nations as well.
As I mentioned, the naval force being used by the US is HUGE, and cannot be mobilized, controlled, or utilized without heavily taxing the people of said country. In a time when the gov't is so opnely attacking unions that it could be considered a new Taft Hartley Act, and teachers as well as the schools they belong are being removed so quickly, we need all of the domestic spending we can get. A more peaceful resolution literally is better for everybody.

EDT: holyshitwalloftext O_O I shouldn't think on weekends xD

[Kuro]

There is no peaceful way to solve this situation. This is what the world has been trying to achieve for weeks while failing. Qaddafi himself is a lunatic, because even though the entire UN is flexing their muscles and showing this incredible force, he is still attacking benghazi while he claims to be in ceasefire. I can't speak for the US and their fleet, whether they will use all of it, what the collateral damage will be, but these guys didn't become leaders of their respective countries because they were stupid. They will try their best to reach a resolution, but no one can sit back and wtach thousands of their fellow humans be murered when all they wished for was democracy.

EDIT: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-12795971 French jets taking action.

[sum1337gai]

=O
Well said, actually I believe that the art of peacefully resolution is dead, to be honest xD
We'll see how the situation progresses, I suppose the best we can hope for is that we're in Libya just long enough to ensure stability, and then allow the country to maintain independence rather than put it in our pocket.
Right now I guess I just worry that after Qaddafi is removed from power, that there's no guarantee of peace afterwards. It's huge oil reserves give me the feeling that we'll end up occupying and using it for profits rather than try to fix all of its problems asap, like we have so often before. Heres to hoping civility overcomes greed ^.^

[Darkchao45]

Originally Posted by shadow.tearz

Qadaffi is a bastard that needs to be taking care of from along time

^This, every time I watch the news and watch this guys actions towards his own people I get disgusted...

I hear he and Chavez were pals...damn that sucks for Venezuela's people to have such a president pals with dictators and stuff...

[WuxingBagua]

no easy solution in this, even if liberated, then what. just a sad situation for all of those subject to war and change. People dont like change and they will kill for it. I just watch like the rest of us in hope that something good will come out of all this. I pray for the people, thats all I can do atm.

[digritz]

The funniest and most unique aspect to this is that China was the first country to deploy any kind of force multiplier there, (Missile Cruiser), off the coast. Granted it was for helping with getting Chinese nationals out of harms way. but this is a first by Chine, who have never in the past made their presence now in such a way. Couple this with the 90.billion dollar spending increase for defense. This includes a huge air craft carrier and some seriously sweet fighter jets they have been working on. Possible 3dr or even 4th generation technology. This could compete with an F-22

[Slush]

Well, French fighters have bombed some military things, and the U.S. has fired off around 100 missiles, those from the Navy we have located nearby. I'm curious to see how Qaddafi is going to respond to this.

[Kuro]

Originally Posted by sum1337gai

=O
Well said, actually I believe that the art of peacefully resolution is dead, to be honest xD
We'll see how the situation progresses, I suppose the best we can hope for is that we're in Libya just long enough to ensure stability, and then allow the country to maintain independence rather than put it in our pocket.
Right now I guess I just worry that after Qaddafi is removed from power, that there's no guarantee of peace afterwards. It's huge oil reserves give me the feeling that we'll end up occupying and using it for profits rather than try to fix all of its problems asap, like we have so often before. Heres to hoping civility overcomes greed ^.^

I do agree with your original statement, and do udnerstand your skepticism. However I believe that this option is no the lesser of two evils. If you monitor the news, you must agree with me that this man has clearly lost his mind, with the things he is saying. I don't think he could be persuaded any way other than this.

[arif_sama]

I don't know much about the situation in Libya other many of the people from my country are stuck there.......they can get home....

[Ace7X]

get a sniper
kill Qaddafi

[WuxingBagua]

Originally Posted by Ace7X

get a sniper
kill Qaddafi

if they did that or could do it, it would stir the pot for theories and more bad press for the US. Best is to put pressure on him and let him leave the country, let shit die down and then boom "former leader dies from heart failure". Although most muslim nations view US as hypocritical to a point, ralling the U.N. and the rest of the world wouldnt work that way to well. Dont want another Desert Shield/Storm. Sure he does bad things, but removal from power would be best over all option and he keeps his life, to show the world transaction/transition within a nation can successfully happen. That to me might never happen but a great "goal". Killing a Killer from a radical point of view doesnt solve anything but breeds more hate. best offense is to choke him out of power and replace him. Living a life of defeat is worse than dying a "martyr" to seed the youth for revenge.

[KuroReishin]

Hurm... Another intervention on international conflict by... you know who. I know the killings got out of control, but why don't they just let the Libyan people settle their conflicts on their own? Foreign interventions will not guarantee a peaceful Libya in the future.

Here's my opinion, and mine alone as an individual: Leave Libya and let the people decides their own future. Tunisia has done it. Egypt has done it. Give Libyan people the key to their own destiny.

Edit: And not all things that appeared in the news reflected what exactly happened there. I have experienced such things during the Egyptian revolution, that you can't really trust the media.

[AldNonymous]

USS Barry
Oddyssey Dawn.