[DarK7WiZaRd]

Originally Posted by KuroReishin

Here's my opinion, and mine alone as an individual: Leave Libya and let the people decides their own future. Tunisia has done it. Egypt has done it. Give Libyan people the key to their own destiny.

the situation is deferent in Libya, in Egypt and Tunisia the presidents didn't use as much power as qaddafi did and the people of Egypt and Tunisia didn't use weapons to defend themselves.

as you can see lybia turned to a battlefield between qaddafi's army and resistance and they both possess weapons, so the outsider meddling is needed, even people of lybia welcomed it!

[KuroReishin]

And in Libya, there's still peoples supporting Gaddafi. And more than a handful of them too. It's not like Egypt and Tunisia where majority of the people opposes the president. But that doesn't warrant a foreign intervention. No-Fly zone is probably just enough. But starting an armed-intervention should not be an option. And what'll they do after they toppled Gaddafi? Steal Libya's oil? And leave when it's empty? Just like Iraq? I'm very skeptical.

[DarK7WiZaRd]

i agree with you, i didn't say that lybia has to be conquered, any intervention must only lower qaddafi's power that he uses against people, about his supporters i don't believe they are real supporters notice that a lot of ministers and generals who were with qaddafi have quited him and joined resistance also that he uses mercenaries from afriqa to fight his people and to stop protests.

[Slush]

Why does it ALWAYS come down to oil with some people, every fucking time. "U.S. only does shit cause they want oil, the U.S. is interfering with the world" The entire world asks US what we're going to do, because they're too pathetic and gutless to do it themselves, and don't want the blame that gets heaped upon the U.S. I mean shit, god forbid the U.S. just doesn't want to see a bunch of civilians get wiped out and decides to help them, that could NEVER happen.

[KuroReishin]

They could as well just leave them alone. Amirite?

[Slush]

So you're ok with watching thousands of people die for no reason besides having a coc'd out dictator?

[Darkchao45]

Originally Posted by Slush

Why does it ALWAYS come down to oil with some people, every fucking time. "U.S. only does shit cause they want oil, the U.S. is interfering with the world" The entire world asks US what we're going to do, because they're too pathetic and gutless to do it themselves, and don't want the blame that gets heaped upon the U.S. I mean shit, god forbid the U.S. just doesn't want to see a bunch of civilians get wiped out and decides to help them, that could NEVER happen.

Real world doesn't work that way. The U.S is in deep shit, and I mean very deep shit economically. There's no way in hell they would go "just" to help out. They need something that will ultimately benefit them...

[KuroReishin]

Originally Posted by Slush

So you're ok with watching thousands of people die for no reason besides having a coc'd out dictator?

I'm not saying it's okay, but it's their country and their fights. And no, they didn't die for no reason. They die for the sake of changing their country. They didn't die for nothing.

[chaotix37]

Originally Posted by KuroReishin

I'm not saying it's okay, but it's their country and their fights. And no, they didn't die for no reason. They die for the sake of changing their country. They didn't die for nothing.

Indeed. Hopefully, they did something like People Power in our country for the sake of changing our country to better. But then, most of the time everything haz a reason to change.

[UnknownFact2]

I'm going to summarize what I heard from a politologist:

Known fact: Qaddafi kills its citizens. Qaddafi is a murderer.
Known fact: Many people have died because of Qadaffi.
Known fact: China also kills its citizens. North Korea also kills its citizens.

Question: Why the "saviors" defend Libyan citizens but not Chinese, Tibetans or North Koreans?

Possible answers:
- Because those citizens are not being killed with tanks.
- Because those countries' armies are big enough to rape the "saviors".
- Because there's no oil there.
- All of the above.

________________________________________

I'm going to summarize something else, but similar:

Known fact: There's a lot of oil in Libya.
Known fact: There is oil in Libya that is being extracted by European companies.

Problem: Why does the UN intervene in an apparent attempt to save citizens in some conflicts/situations/wse and not in others?

Possible partial conclusions:
- The UN only intervenes in those conflicts they can militarily handle. (Which is obvious lol)
- The UN only intervenes in those conflicts that have direct or indirect negative effects in its own interests. (*)

(*) I could assume there is a balance in intervention costs / theoretical losses if conflict is left alone.
(*) UN Security Council's (Permanent) Members interests.

________________________

In the end, YES, Qadaffi is a bastard. But the "saviors" are not true saviors. Libyan citizens being "saved" could only be a side effect of what the UN is really doing there.
Let's just "hope" everything follows the path that involves less people killed (excluding Qaddafi) instead of labelling these and those as heroes and evil doers. It's all politics, sadly.